Five minutes with Dave Cousins
I have a theory that the best way to study the impact of pop or rock music is to look at the effort fans will go to in order to document a band’s history. Strawbsweb is a case in point. The attention to detail with which Dick Greener and other Strawbs fans have populated the memorabilia section of the site proves a kind of devotion that, after so many years in the business, must be humbling for frontman Dave Cousins.
The songs of the Strawbs are about as close as music can get to being intertwined with my DNA. Cousins’s voice is so familiar to me that he sounds like an old friend singing to me personally. I listened to Bursting At The Seams, Grave New World, Ghosts, Nomadness, Hero and Heroine and Deep Cuts countless hundreds of times when I was a teenager. They were the soundtrack to my adolescence. In the early 1970s someone at A&M, their record label, felt sorry enough for this obsessed fan to send me the sleeves of every one of their albums to date (I already had as many of them as were available on pre-recorded cassette). I can still remember the intense joy I felt at opening the glorious gatefold sleeve of Grave New World, with its William Blake ‘Glad Day’ cover and the stunning metallic effects of the interior art.
But what makes Cousins so extraordinary is the imagery in his lyrics. Although his words are open to wide interpretation (often because, in the days before song lyrics were available online, you couldn’t understand every word he was singing), he was much more specifically descriptive in his imagery than, say, Bob Dylan, who tended to be more metaphorical than illustrative. Cousins’s songs like ‘Beside The Rio Grande’ (Christ’s crucifixion told in spaghetti-western form about a snake-oil preacher) or ‘Hero and Heroine’ (which is about the only lyric I have memorised and can quote like a poem—in fact, you could almost convince people it’s a Tennyson, Byron, or Wordsworth ode) are chillingly different from anything other writers were doing at the time. The only composer who comes anywhere close to him lyrically is Sting.
Cousins, born in 1945, has a degree in statistics and pure mathematics from the University of Leicester, so would be the ideal man to help the NZBC prove the Stratford Theory of Numbers. He even had a year’s experience in advertising agencies before becoming a professional musician. Between 1969 and 1979 he was a producer for Denmark Radio and subsequently programme controller for Radio Tees. Since 1991 he has been in charge of St David’s Research, where he has been involved in many successful franchise applications for UK local radio stations. He also runs Witchwood Records, the independent label that has re-released many of the Strawbs’ classic recordings. In 2007, he released his second solo album, The Boy In The Sailor Suit. Songs such as ‘The Smile You Left Behind’ are as timeless as some of the classics from the first, Two Weeks Last Summer (recorded in 1972), like ‘Blue Angel’ and ‘We’ll Meet Again Sometime’.
The songs of the Strawbs are about as close as music can get to being intertwined with my DNA. Cousins’s voice is so familiar to me that he sounds like an old friend singing to me personally. I listened to Bursting At The Seams, Grave New World, Ghosts, Nomadness, Hero and Heroine and Deep Cuts countless hundreds of times when I was a teenager. They were the soundtrack to my adolescence. In the early 1970s someone at A&M, their record label, felt sorry enough for this obsessed fan to send me the sleeves of every one of their albums to date (I already had as many of them as were available on pre-recorded cassette). I can still remember the intense joy I felt at opening the glorious gatefold sleeve of Grave New World, with its William Blake ‘Glad Day’ cover and the stunning metallic effects of the interior art.
But what makes Cousins so extraordinary is the imagery in his lyrics. Although his words are open to wide interpretation (often because, in the days before song lyrics were available online, you couldn’t understand every word he was singing), he was much more specifically descriptive in his imagery than, say, Bob Dylan, who tended to be more metaphorical than illustrative. Cousins’s songs like ‘Beside The Rio Grande’ (Christ’s crucifixion told in spaghetti-western form about a snake-oil preacher) or ‘Hero and Heroine’ (which is about the only lyric I have memorised and can quote like a poem—in fact, you could almost convince people it’s a Tennyson, Byron, or Wordsworth ode) are chillingly different from anything other writers were doing at the time. The only composer who comes anywhere close to him lyrically is Sting.
Cousins, born in 1945, has a degree in statistics and pure mathematics from the University of Leicester, so would be the ideal man to help the NZBC prove the Stratford Theory of Numbers. He even had a year’s experience in advertising agencies before becoming a professional musician. Between 1969 and 1979 he was a producer for Denmark Radio and subsequently programme controller for Radio Tees. Since 1991 he has been in charge of St David’s Research, where he has been involved in many successful franchise applications for UK local radio stations. He also runs Witchwood Records, the independent label that has re-released many of the Strawbs’ classic recordings. In 2007, he released his second solo album, The Boy In The Sailor Suit. Songs such as ‘The Smile You Left Behind’ are as timeless as some of the classics from the first, Two Weeks Last Summer (recorded in 1972), like ‘Blue Angel’ and ‘We’ll Meet Again Sometime’.
Thanks for 40 years of great music, Dave.
In the early 1970s, when the Strawbs were at their busiest and most successful, you took the time to reply personally to letters from fans—even writing long, handwritten letters and supplying details of the band’s instruments and backline. Do you think you’d do the same if you were a young musician enjoying chart success today?
“I’m sure I would. In those days I was just a musician and only had to concentrate on writing songs—so I had time on my hands. In fact, it has paid off over the years as I have remained friends with many of those correspondents.
“Sadly I don’t have as much time nowadays, hence the delay in replying to this. Now I have to write songs, organise the band’s gigs, and organise the record company!”
The music industry was very different in those days; it seems innocent and almost primitive by comparison with today’s scene. What do you miss most about the days of A&M Records, Arnakata Management [Mike and Jim Dolan and Jim Dawson’s ill-starred company, which at one time or another also managed acts such as Judas Priest and Be Bop Deluxe], Summerland songs and having five consecutive albums on the Billboard charts?
“I greatly miss the camaraderie of A&M. The whole team were personal friends and were dedicated to making sure that our records were promoted in as many places as possible. A&M didn’t want us to leave, nor did I! It was a management decision which operated for their benefit and not the band. Hence I do not miss Arnakata at all. Summerland Songs was my own publishing company that was put into receivership without my knowledge. I bought back my catalogue of songs from the receiver.
“In fact, we had seven consecutive albums on the Billboard chart. We were quite well-known then. I don’t miss that accolade, although I wish we could trace all the people who bought our records then and tell them we’re still in business.”
What’s the story behind the Bursting At The Seams-era band recording its superb version of the folk song ‘Will Ye Go’? It sounds so fresh it could have been recorded yesterday, yet apparently there was a bit of an oversight regarding the song’s supposed ‘traditional’ status that backfired on you. Could you elaborate?
“The usual arguments about publishing royalties! The B-side of a single attracted the same amount of mechanical royalties as the A-side. It seemed democratic for the band to share the writing credits for ‘Will Ye Go’, which I believed to be a traditional song. As it transpires, it was registered by the McPeake family from Belfast, who had a nice Christmas present of about £5000 that year. Later, I was told by Scottish folk singer Alex Campbell that his father had written it. I couldn’t be bothered to put it to the test.”
Would you say the presence of the Strawbs’ albums on the Apple iTunes store has reinvigorated interest in the band’s earlier recordings, and what are your feelings about digital downloads generally?
“I think the interest in our early recordings has been more stimulated by the extensive touring we have done since the Chiswick House reunion concert [the band’s 1998 30th Anniversary event]. This coincided with the release of many of the A&M albums on CD.
“I am all in favour of legal downloading. In fact, a number of Witchwood albums are now available through Pinnacle Download and iTunes, Napster, and so on.
“I am fighting bootlegs as much as I can as they rip off the artist and fan alike. I am working with the BPI investigation department regarding this, but it is very time-consuming.”
Dick Greener has done an amazing job creating and maintaining Strawbsweb. Before the internet it was virtually impossible to find facts about the band and it’s easy to forget how difficult searching for anything was in the 1970s and 1980s. Do you have a complete archive of Strawbs back-catalogue material and press cuttings, or are there any important gaps?
“I have an archive but there are gaps where I left wives and girlfriends with large sections of press cuttings. The boxed set was largely compiled from my boxes of old contracts, tickets, badges, photos and so on.
“The Strawbs website has been a major factor in our revival, thanks to Dick Greener and his team. Many people consider it to be the best group site they have seen. I don’t disagree.”
In 2003 you fell from a ladder while renovating your farmhouse in France and broke your pelvis. Have you recovered fully from the injuries, or has the fall permanently affected your ability to play and sing for long periods?
“I fractured my pelvis and the house is not a farmhouse as such. I couldn’t put my left foot to the floor for 14 weeks, which was a pain. However, I religiously did all my exercises and I feel no effects of the accident at all.
“The reason we sit down for acoustic shows is that the guitar parts are a bit fiddly and [bassist] Chas [Cronk, one of the Strawbs’ longest-serving sidemen] wouldn’t be able to play the pedals standing up.
“On my upcoming solo gigs in the US and Canada I’ll be standing, although ‘Blue Angel’ is a bit tricky!”
The concert in London’s Queen Elizabeth Hall on the South Bank in July 1970, where Rick Wakeman was first acclaimed as a “keyboard genius” and which was released as the album Just a Collection of Antiques and Curios, is rightly regarded as a folk-rock classic. How much do you remember about the concert, and who was to blame for the ‘interesting’ note in the segue between the final choruses of ‘Song of a Sad Little Girl’ [a song about Cousins’s daughter Joelle]?
“I remember the concert pretty well. It was our first major concert as headliner and went blindingly well.
“Rick came out of it as a major star but the Guardian critic described me as a rough and ready club singer. His name was Lustig and I have always wondered if he was the son of Jo Lustig who managed Pentangle. In the US and Canada my voice is described as individual, which I prefer!
“One of the songs was too rough to consider for an album and has never appeared anywhere. Others have seen the light of day later. In fact, I like revisiting old songs as I don’t think we necessarily did them justice at the time.
“If there was an ‘interesting’ note in ‘Sad Little Girl’, so what? The album was a recording of a live concert and appeared warts and all. However, we did cut out about 30 seconds of ‘Temperament of Mind’, as Rick got a bit hot and flustered.”
You recently released your second solo album in 35 years. What were the biggest similarities and differences between those recording experiences?
“Both albums were recorded essentially live. There are hardly any overdubs on either of them. The standard of equipment has improved markedly in the period, especially in the availability of effects.
“On the new album there is no echo on my voice. The separation is achieved by phasing, and that is all down to the skill of Chris Tsangarides. I am recording some solo tracks with him after Christmas and the band will be recording with him in April. It is interesting that he was the tape operator on Grave New World. It’s all part of being a member of the Family Strawb.”
If NZBC readers read only one book this year, which book should it be (and can we expect ‘Dave Cousins The Autobiography’, or at least ‘The Complete Strawbs’ any time soon)?
“They should read William Pitt The Younger: A Biography, written by William Hague, although it came out last year. It is beautifully written and doesn’t go into lists of obscure names that often confuse history books.
“I am learning about people and houses that we come across in our travels nowadays, such as Wentworth House near Rotherham, the largest private house in Europe. It has the most remarkable story, which includes a monument to Admiral Keppell. There is a cottage just round the corner from my house that was named after the Admiral and now I have to find out why.
“How many people would read the story of the Strawbs? It’s all in the songs, anyway.”
What’s on your iPod’s ‘On the Go’ playlist at the moment, or are you an iPod refusenik?
“I don’t have an iPod, but I listened to one of our tracks on one recently to get the words of a song. I’m not a refusenik, either. Frankly, I can’t be bothered with the idea or putting loads of songs on a machine. It’s bad enough recording tracks to send to people when I want to record them.
“I like CDs. They are convenient and I’m told they sound better than MP3s.
“I don’t really listen to a lot of music. I still enjoy Bob Dylan and early Jackson Browne. I am enjoying Sigur Rós and Radio Tarifa.
“When I started to write songs I didn’t listen to much then, either. I just sit in the pub, surrounded by people, music playing or not and write what comes into my head. If it fits a tune, fine. If it doesn’t, I’ll change the tune. If I don’t have a tune I’ll find one later. Sometimes, the tune comes first. It’s all a bugger’s muddle but I’ve had a lot to be thankful for and am still writing.
“The latest is called ‘Plainsong’ and you’ll be able to hear it in March.”
In the early 1970s, when the Strawbs were at their busiest and most successful, you took the time to reply personally to letters from fans—even writing long, handwritten letters and supplying details of the band’s instruments and backline. Do you think you’d do the same if you were a young musician enjoying chart success today?
“I’m sure I would. In those days I was just a musician and only had to concentrate on writing songs—so I had time on my hands. In fact, it has paid off over the years as I have remained friends with many of those correspondents.
“Sadly I don’t have as much time nowadays, hence the delay in replying to this. Now I have to write songs, organise the band’s gigs, and organise the record company!”
The music industry was very different in those days; it seems innocent and almost primitive by comparison with today’s scene. What do you miss most about the days of A&M Records, Arnakata Management [Mike and Jim Dolan and Jim Dawson’s ill-starred company, which at one time or another also managed acts such as Judas Priest and Be Bop Deluxe], Summerland songs and having five consecutive albums on the Billboard charts?
“I greatly miss the camaraderie of A&M. The whole team were personal friends and were dedicated to making sure that our records were promoted in as many places as possible. A&M didn’t want us to leave, nor did I! It was a management decision which operated for their benefit and not the band. Hence I do not miss Arnakata at all. Summerland Songs was my own publishing company that was put into receivership without my knowledge. I bought back my catalogue of songs from the receiver.
“In fact, we had seven consecutive albums on the Billboard chart. We were quite well-known then. I don’t miss that accolade, although I wish we could trace all the people who bought our records then and tell them we’re still in business.”
What’s the story behind the Bursting At The Seams-era band recording its superb version of the folk song ‘Will Ye Go’? It sounds so fresh it could have been recorded yesterday, yet apparently there was a bit of an oversight regarding the song’s supposed ‘traditional’ status that backfired on you. Could you elaborate?
“The usual arguments about publishing royalties! The B-side of a single attracted the same amount of mechanical royalties as the A-side. It seemed democratic for the band to share the writing credits for ‘Will Ye Go’, which I believed to be a traditional song. As it transpires, it was registered by the McPeake family from Belfast, who had a nice Christmas present of about £5000 that year. Later, I was told by Scottish folk singer Alex Campbell that his father had written it. I couldn’t be bothered to put it to the test.”
Would you say the presence of the Strawbs’ albums on the Apple iTunes store has reinvigorated interest in the band’s earlier recordings, and what are your feelings about digital downloads generally?
“I think the interest in our early recordings has been more stimulated by the extensive touring we have done since the Chiswick House reunion concert [the band’s 1998 30th Anniversary event]. This coincided with the release of many of the A&M albums on CD.
“I am all in favour of legal downloading. In fact, a number of Witchwood albums are now available through Pinnacle Download and iTunes, Napster, and so on.
“I am fighting bootlegs as much as I can as they rip off the artist and fan alike. I am working with the BPI investigation department regarding this, but it is very time-consuming.”
Dick Greener has done an amazing job creating and maintaining Strawbsweb. Before the internet it was virtually impossible to find facts about the band and it’s easy to forget how difficult searching for anything was in the 1970s and 1980s. Do you have a complete archive of Strawbs back-catalogue material and press cuttings, or are there any important gaps?
“I have an archive but there are gaps where I left wives and girlfriends with large sections of press cuttings. The boxed set was largely compiled from my boxes of old contracts, tickets, badges, photos and so on.
“The Strawbs website has been a major factor in our revival, thanks to Dick Greener and his team. Many people consider it to be the best group site they have seen. I don’t disagree.”
In 2003 you fell from a ladder while renovating your farmhouse in France and broke your pelvis. Have you recovered fully from the injuries, or has the fall permanently affected your ability to play and sing for long periods?
“I fractured my pelvis and the house is not a farmhouse as such. I couldn’t put my left foot to the floor for 14 weeks, which was a pain. However, I religiously did all my exercises and I feel no effects of the accident at all.
“The reason we sit down for acoustic shows is that the guitar parts are a bit fiddly and [bassist] Chas [Cronk, one of the Strawbs’ longest-serving sidemen] wouldn’t be able to play the pedals standing up.
“On my upcoming solo gigs in the US and Canada I’ll be standing, although ‘Blue Angel’ is a bit tricky!”
The concert in London’s Queen Elizabeth Hall on the South Bank in July 1970, where Rick Wakeman was first acclaimed as a “keyboard genius” and which was released as the album Just a Collection of Antiques and Curios, is rightly regarded as a folk-rock classic. How much do you remember about the concert, and who was to blame for the ‘interesting’ note in the segue between the final choruses of ‘Song of a Sad Little Girl’ [a song about Cousins’s daughter Joelle]?
“I remember the concert pretty well. It was our first major concert as headliner and went blindingly well.
“Rick came out of it as a major star but the Guardian critic described me as a rough and ready club singer. His name was Lustig and I have always wondered if he was the son of Jo Lustig who managed Pentangle. In the US and Canada my voice is described as individual, which I prefer!
“One of the songs was too rough to consider for an album and has never appeared anywhere. Others have seen the light of day later. In fact, I like revisiting old songs as I don’t think we necessarily did them justice at the time.
“If there was an ‘interesting’ note in ‘Sad Little Girl’, so what? The album was a recording of a live concert and appeared warts and all. However, we did cut out about 30 seconds of ‘Temperament of Mind’, as Rick got a bit hot and flustered.”
You recently released your second solo album in 35 years. What were the biggest similarities and differences between those recording experiences?
“Both albums were recorded essentially live. There are hardly any overdubs on either of them. The standard of equipment has improved markedly in the period, especially in the availability of effects.
“On the new album there is no echo on my voice. The separation is achieved by phasing, and that is all down to the skill of Chris Tsangarides. I am recording some solo tracks with him after Christmas and the band will be recording with him in April. It is interesting that he was the tape operator on Grave New World. It’s all part of being a member of the Family Strawb.”
If NZBC readers read only one book this year, which book should it be (and can we expect ‘Dave Cousins The Autobiography’, or at least ‘The Complete Strawbs’ any time soon)?
“They should read William Pitt The Younger: A Biography, written by William Hague, although it came out last year. It is beautifully written and doesn’t go into lists of obscure names that often confuse history books.
“I am learning about people and houses that we come across in our travels nowadays, such as Wentworth House near Rotherham, the largest private house in Europe. It has the most remarkable story, which includes a monument to Admiral Keppell. There is a cottage just round the corner from my house that was named after the Admiral and now I have to find out why.
“How many people would read the story of the Strawbs? It’s all in the songs, anyway.”
What’s on your iPod’s ‘On the Go’ playlist at the moment, or are you an iPod refusenik?
“I don’t have an iPod, but I listened to one of our tracks on one recently to get the words of a song. I’m not a refusenik, either. Frankly, I can’t be bothered with the idea or putting loads of songs on a machine. It’s bad enough recording tracks to send to people when I want to record them.
“I like CDs. They are convenient and I’m told they sound better than MP3s.
“I don’t really listen to a lot of music. I still enjoy Bob Dylan and early Jackson Browne. I am enjoying Sigur Rós and Radio Tarifa.
“When I started to write songs I didn’t listen to much then, either. I just sit in the pub, surrounded by people, music playing or not and write what comes into my head. If it fits a tune, fine. If it doesn’t, I’ll change the tune. If I don’t have a tune I’ll find one later. Sometimes, the tune comes first. It’s all a bugger’s muddle but I’ve had a lot to be thankful for and am still writing.
“The latest is called ‘Plainsong’ and you’ll be able to hear it in March.”
posted by Chris Bell at 5:52 PM
2 Comments:
Thanks Chris,
That was agreat article/interview
I have been following the Strawbs for some 38 years and I think the Strawbs are a sadly underrated band. Fortunately we get lots of opportunities to continue enjoying their music!
Thanks, Malo, it's good to hear from you. Make sure you get The Broken-Hearted Bride, the new Strawbs album out now on Witchwood Records. It's the best thing they've done in about 20 years.
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